The Dark Truths About The Desi Party Scene

This entry was posted on 5/28/2006 10:29 PM and is filed under From the NRIPulse Archives.

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• 5/29/2006 8:23 AM Maya wrote:
  Reena,
  
  I agree with you. Its time the Indian society here and in India realize that blaming women for everything that happens to them is not going to work anymore.
  
  It is the fear that parents and others will come to know (the gun of reputation that these parents use very effectively in Indian culture) that keeps these victims from reporting these abuses.
  
  Only when a woman can proudly say, "Hey, he has NO RIGHT to do that!" in public will she really be empowered.
  And for that to be possible, the family should back her up 100%.
  
  In reality, it is impossible for a mother to empower her child unless she knows or understands what that means. It takes generations to undo the damage done by our culture (and many other cultures, but lets clean our house first! )
  
  I have two daughters in the colleges here in the US and I know that being young, they will probably make mistakes. But I hope that they will not have to bear the trauma of any such incidents unnecessarily if the community stands behind them.
  
  Our community has never come to terms with ideas such as an "independent, single female", "marrying for love", homosexuality, getting out of a bad marriage, "love after divorce", Widowhood, etc.
  
  Indians believe in a cookie-cutter template for life!! Anything that differs from it is unacceptable.
  
  Reena, you make a very good point, but it will be years before we will see any positive changes for ALL women in Indian culture.
  Reply to this
  1. 6/20/2006 1:29 PM b.b.goyal wrote:
     nobody should forget indian culture.
     Reply to this
• 5/30/2006 1:28 PM An Indian Male wrote:
  This is in response to the blog in which Ms. Reena Patel says that rape is never the girl's fault. She also alludes that the apparent freedom for American women to binge-drink and party uninhibited is something good.
  
  As an Indian male, I must disagree with this young lady's views. It is a view skewed by what I call "Radical Feminism". I have been fortunate to grow up in India and come to the USA for my Masters degree, so I am familiar with both college scenes.
  
  As one of her examples, she talks about a girl who got drunk and woke up in shock the next morning. But nowhere is the question of "WHY did she get drunk?" raised by the author. I feel this type of thinking is because of feminism that is drilled into a woman's mind in America's schools and colleges.
  
  Should girls be allowed to drink beer? Definitely. In India, my female classmates used to drink beer to relax themselves. I would have 2 beers, they would have 1. It was to soothe our nerves after a long day before going back to the hostels. Neither they nor I would wake up the next morning in shock with a hangover.
  
  In America, the women drink beer to COMPETE with the males. As laughable as this is, many American females who are coworkers of mine will have 3 drinks when I have 2. The end result is that they get drunk, sick, vomit, and often someone will end up having to take them home. Women can break down alcohol about 60% as efficiently as men. Science has proven this. Yet because of slogans like "girl power!" that are omnipresent in America and ringing in every female's head 24 hours a day because of the media, they end up getting drunk and damaging their health. Feminism in America is an illogical worldview that has become extremely detrimental to society. It places men and women on the same levels in all aspects of life, something which is not biologically possible.
  
  There was a recent article in the news that 'Hooters', a semi-strip-club type of restaurant from America, is planning to open in India. I have written to the minister of Punjab to voice my serious concerns with this. It is because I have seen American women go to clubs like these with their children and encourage their young daughters to be strippers! As repugnant as this idea is to most Indians, if Hooters is allowed to operate in Bharatdesh, the end result will be the introduction of feminist elements that is one of the reasons for the 65% divorce rate in the United States. I joke not when I say the divorce rate is 65% in America, which means that nearly 2 out of 3 marriages end in divorce, often with multiple stepchildren as a result. I can only imagine what it is like to grow up without a father or a mother, since like most Indians I was spared of this unfortunate condition.
  
  Family values were strong in America in the 1950s and 1960s. The hippy culture sparked the tinder of feminism in the '70s which mutated into "radical feminism"
  Reply to this
  1. 6/2/2006 12:50 PM Nisha wrote:
     I find it saddening and strange that "girl power" could be viewed as such a threat.
     
     As for Hooters, it is not a strip club. While the waitresses are known to be scantily clad, there is a huge difference between Hooters and strip clubs. Furthermore, parents (American or not) do not take their children to Hooters in order to convince them to become strippers, and to paint all Americans or all feminists in such a way is ignorant at best. As a feminist, I can assure you that the Hooters franchise, which does objectify the female body, is not a monolith of feminist ideology: the majority of feminists consider it quite the opposite.
     
     Feminism is a matter of human rights, and the fact that rape is NOT the fault of the victim is NOT radical. While it is the choice and responsability of the girl to keep herself out of dangerous situations, only the RAPIST can in the end be called into blame. Women have the right to drink, just as men have the right to drink. Men and women are level, not in the amount of alcohol they drink, but in that both have the right to drink as much as they themselves choose. It is not a contest, it is a personal choice. And science has proven that the ability to handle alcohol is far more correlated to body-size than gender.
     
     Rape is not an inevitability, is it not a punishment for bad behavior. The fact that a rape occurs is due solely to the malintent of a selfish person who *chooses* to take advantage of someone else's body and well-being, with no regard to the rights of their victim. And to ignore that fact and blame the victim herself for her "radical feminism" is nothing short of shameful.
     Reply to this
     1. 6/3/2006 2:08 PM An Indian Male wrote:
        I love the original American vision and what it stood for but the past 20 years have seen it take a plummet in family values. But in India "radical feminism" hasn't gained much ground yet and we must keep it that way for the sake of posterity. Hence Ms. Nisha, I can't imagine anyone with an Indian name speaking like you do because the things you're saying are so contrary to what Indian culture teaches us about marriage and the status of men and women. I would guess Ms.Nisha was born and raised in America.
        
        Men are the providers and breadearners of the family. Even in this day and age where many Indian girls are getting an education, our culture is able to fend off the "radical feminist" philosophy of UK and USA. Men and women in Indian culture are still taught that marriage is a union between two partners who complement each other. Hence wives who earn are not viewing their jobs as a status symbol but to make their family better off.
        
        Ms.Nisha, you have not addressed the issue at hand here: WHY should girls be drinking as much when science has shown that they cannot break down alcohol as easily as a man? American women are offended that they are physically inferior so they try to skew science facts. No matter. I think common sense will prevail and I've dedicated a large part of my free time to debunking "radical" feminist propaganda.
        
        For all men and women reading these posts: I URGE you to write to your home state in India and address your serious concerns with 'Hooters' and similar debasing establishments. These institutions are not only there to serve purely Western interests in subverting other cultures, they are also demeaning to women. As an Indian male, I find 'Hooters' an affront to womankind. I have heard with my own ears female colleagues in America saying their mom "took me to Hooters and wants me to be just like a stripper!". I have seen photographs and videos of American women encouraging their sisters or daughters to drink or go to strip clubs. I think even most Americans would have been aghast at such behavior 20 years ago.
        
        The radical feminist movement isn't there to help women anymore. It is purely to dominate men, exploit women's emotions and keep the women populace always feaful of the "male yoke of oppression". The original feminists wanted equal work opportunities and over time, this movement has mutated into a disease that has taken God out of the American school system, promotes homosexuality and lesbianism (being gay is considered trendy in America these days), and has caused the divorce rate in some American states to reach 75%, such as in California.
        
        Unchecked, feminism doesn't work. Indeed, most things don't. It must be tempered so that a woman never feels that she can do ANYTHING as well as a man can. Because the truth is that she can't.
        
        Here's another excellent article by a Canadian author I admire. Thanks ladies and gentlemen, more to come later!
        
        http://www.savethemales.ca/180902.html
        Reply to this
        1. 6/4/2006 2:20 PM Maya wrote:
           Dear Indian Male,
           
           One day you may be brave enough to sign your name as I did.
           
           One day you may be equal enough to live in many cultures and be open minded enough to accept what works in our culture while admitting and changing what doesnt.
           
           One day you may be equal enough to raise your children while
           keeping a clean house, keeping the family well fed while working
           at a full time job and doing better than many men in your field.
           
           One day you may be capable of doing the MOST IMPORTANT JOB IN THE WORLD, that of creating a child in your womb and delivering as well as raising it with full global awareness to be an amazing
           citizen of the world.
           
           One day you may let go of your tendency to push, pull, control, overthrow other human beings and be able to share, understand, help and emphathize with another human being.
           
           One day you may be able to become equal to a woman.
           
           
           Maya Nair
           Reply to this
• 5/30/2006 1:30 PM An Indian Male wrote:
  n the mid-90s, and the latter is now the wildfire which is destroying all semblance of morality in the United States. I learnt a lot of my values from my mother. Who will teach children these norms if not a parent? Western culture has the saying "If you've got it, flaunt it!". In America, both sex and wealth are flaunted. In India we flaunt wealth. I shudder to think what will happen there if the same is done with sex.
  
  Will my email to Punjab's minister be even read by anyone in his office? Probably not. But we must try to do what we can to save a culture that is under attack. A culture that doesn't give the appearance of power and cohesion, yet is so strong in family values that even under enormous external pressure to change, is holding together at the seams. I fear those seams may burst soon if the damaged threads are not stitched back.
  
  More to come later guys and gals. Feel free to drop me an email at agahnim1@yahoo.com to discuss this issue.
  Reply to this
• 5/30/2006 1:54 PM An Indian Male wrote:
  "Our community has never come to terms with ideas such as an "independent, single female", "marrying for love", homosexuality, getting out of a bad marriage, "love after divorce", Widowhood, etc."
  
  I'm extremely sad at comments like these. It is as if some Indians think EVERYTHING western must be good. This is a malady which is assures destruction of a culture.
  Reply to this
  1. 6/5/2006 5:09 PM Arun wrote:
     I was wondering how anyone could spout such total balderdash in this age and time when it struck me....the "Indian Male" is, on all probability, no such thing! Possibly he is not an Indian, probably not a male....quite conceivably a "fine young lady"! In other words, he/she/it is very likely somebody playing an agent provocateur role. Consider:
     
     1. He/She/It asks "Should girls be allowed(!) to drink beer?"...Allowed?!...By whom?
     
     2. He/She/It complains that the question "Why did she get drunk?" was never raised in the original article...as if that was in any way relevant! That was personal decision my dear Sir/Madam, not the sanction of the "providers and bread earners of the family" (for which you seem to have an inordinate respect). The consequence of that sort of personal decision should be a hangover, not a rape. If you can't grasp that you have missed the point of the original post completely.
     
     3. He/She/It rants and raves against "radical feminism", a convenient pejorative that most conservative cretins in the U.S.A. use to demonize any sort of self-assertive action or resistance from women. Though (unintentionally I am sure) He/She/It correlates this "radical feminism" with education ("Even in this day and age where many Indian girls are getting an education, our culture is able to fend off the "radical feminist" philosophy....")
     
     4. "Feminist elements are one of the reasons for 65% divorce rates in USA" ?!...What nonsense! The environment that results in a divorce is usually fostered by both the partners in the marriage, I haven't heard of any "feminist" element being wholly responsible for it. (Unless of course, you classify the courage it takes to get out of an oppressive relationship as "feminism").
     
     5. "feminists..has taken God out of the American school system, promotes homosexuality and lesbianism..caused divorce rates in some American states to reach 75%...." and "..I have written to the Punjab Minister to voice my serious concerns [about Hooters]..."
     
     This is rich..a Punjabi "prraji" with Pat Buchanan overtones!
     
     6. As for the vitriol "fine young Indian male lady", all I could gather was that He/She/It quit drinking to earn the respect of "Indian guys who where always looking to get into a girl's pants"...Pathetic!
     Reply to this
     1. 6/5/2006 9:25 PM An Indian Male wrote:
        Mr. Arun, I'm not saying that rape is good. Rape should be punished as it is a heinous crime. I'm not saying girls shouldn't have choices. They should be able to choose their career, partner, and other things in life just as a male does. What I AM saying is: Women are physically inferior in most ways and this is an undeniable fact of life. Man is the master species on earth and he has much good and bad in him. Hopefully he will do good and live with his wife as his spiritual equal.
        
        However, to think that a woman can do EVERYTHING as well as a men can, and to give women free scholarships simply for being that gender, is absurd. I don't want to see my son as a 2nd class citizen. Why should that bother someone? I also don't want to see my future daughter going to 'Hooters' and trying to emulate the waitresses there. The honour of the family in our culture is often based on the girl's virtues. Why is that wrong, since women are accepted as being the more nurturing sex?
        
        I don't think I'm asking too much.
        
        Lastly: Oh yes I'm Indian. Kui nehi honga mein? Mere umur vich teh sab shaane honde hai. Magar mera khuun bee jaldi ubalda hai, saara sikh haan vurgan.
        
        
        Reply to this
• 6/4/2006 2:22 PM Reena wrote:
  I would hardly begin to describe myself as a “radical feminist” or even a feminist at all. I think that my upbringing has been a traditional one, and I think that I myself have some very conservative views on certain things. I think that young women’s empowerment is a positive thing. Women’s empowerment in the United States is not at all about getting women to think they are better then men. It is about getting women to see their potential in life, whether it be the workplace (whether they choose to work where they want to or even take the role of caretaker) or any other aspirations they have in life. When it comes to rape, I maintain that it is NOT the girls fault. The girl in the first example had a few drinks and was most likely given something like date rape drug. For more information on these drugs you can go to http://www.4woman.gov/faq/rohypnol.htm.
  I wrote this article over a year ago and the intended purpose has begun to be fulfilled. As Maya said, we have a long way to go. I wanted people to start talking and as you can see they are definitely talking. I think my lifestyle and preferences are completely irrelevant because I am simply talking about one thing: rape in the Indian community. Drinking is a personal choice and I think it is up to each individual to decide whether they want to or not with the realization that it could impair their judgment (male and female). I think that if they are going to drink they need to be safe and make sure that they have help if anything should happen.
  I think that many other topics have come into focus through this article, but why is it that we cannot discuss one thing such as women’s rights to their own body without pulling in five other controversial topics? What does homosexuality or even the opening of Hooters have to do with rape (not to say that they are not important topics to discuss but just not in relation to this topic)? Why hide behind them in an effort to say that the people who advocate any or all of these topics are all becoming “too forward?” I think India, America the UK and any other countries with Indians are bound to change their views and values as time goes on. I think people should be aware of their own values and that is what will bring about change.
  To the people who are trying to turn this into a drinking dilemma, it is not. Talk to the girl that went to garba or the girl to was raped by her own family member in her home at the age of thirteen and it is definitely not about drinking. It is about the destruction of another human being’s livelihood. It has been a problem for thousands of years and yet we do not consider it as a problem we should deal with. Rape affects the mind the body and the soul. Continued in the next posting...
  Reply to this
• 6/4/2006 2:23 PM Reena wrote:
  I think if you ever met a young lady who was raped and saw the person she was before and after the incident you would see the effects, and heaven forbid if something like this happened in your family, you would want to kill whoever did this to them. This incident is something she will never forget for the rest of her life and it will plague her mind for as long as she lives. If you think we should continue to come up with a cure for any disease then you should think we should solve this rape problem as well because it destroys lives. This needs to stop and it needs to stop now. Set aside your views on feminism, homosexuality, drinking, the rights of males or me and take the stance that rape needs to stop regardless of the preceding events that led to the act.
  Reply to this
• 6/4/2006 4:59 PM A fine young lady wrote:
  Indian guys do not respect girls who get drunk and make out with random guys at a club.
  When a girl lets a guy buy a drink, she must know that she will have to give something in return. Indian guys or any guy for that matter are always looking to get into a girl’s pants. Most girls who get drunk like crazy are considered “easy.” Guys would try their best to get with them no matter what. It is your duty as a girl to make sure you don’t drink excessively and are unaware of things that are happening around you. I recently stopped drinking about couple months ago. Like many other Indians at my university, I used to drink a lot as well. I never used to when I was in high school but I decided to give it a try when I got to college. I used to let other guys buy me drinks because I use to hate spending money on alcohol. I know it is really hypocritical of me but that’s what I used to do. I use to see in the news about all the crap that used to happen to girls when they got drunk. I was like nothing of that sort is going to happen to me. One of my guy friends told me about the Indian guys’ views on Indian girls who get wasted and make out with random guys. He really opened my eyes and that is when I really stopped drinking. Even though I knew about this before, but until someone just sits there and tells you what’s up… you tend to ignore it. Guys and girls that drink are usually insecure. They drink to get loose. It is basically an excuse to do something stupid and get away with it by saying “Oh! I was drunk.” There is nothing wrong with going to the clubs and dancing but you can do all that stuff without getting completely wasted. Even if you feel the need to drink, just drink in limits. You can’t complain about being sexually abused, raped or molested if you were drunk out of your mind. Honestly, you were just asking for it.
  
  All I have to say is BE CAREFUL!!!!
  
  To Maya:
  
  How immature are you? Just because you put you name and Indian male didn’t doesn’t make you braver than him. The forums are only here for people’s views on things…with or without a name. There are so many Maya’s in the world…just because you put Maya as your name, doesn’t mean everyone would know who you are. You could probably be using a fake name but no one here would know now, would they? You need to calm down and read other people’s opinions and post if you agree or disagree with them. No need to attack people and call them weak just because they didn’t put a damn name. Oh btw I am not gonna put my name down, why don’t you take your frustrations out on me. GOSH!!!
  
  Sorry guys for flaming at the end but this lady just ticked me off.
  Reply to this
• 6/5/2006 12:00 PM Beena wrote:
  Just had the chance to view the threads on this blog. Great subject and I applaud you Reena, to have put forth this subject to discussion.
  
  No body is leagally or morally bound to certain ways of life. People are not legally bound to lock their cars and homes, and I have every right to walk around my city any allies in my city any given time with a purse filled with cash. A woman has every right to walk into a party in bikini if she chose to and not to be touched unwillingly. But we have a responsibility to protect ourselves or at least to avoid the risks if possible. I agree with Nisha Nair totally, Women have the responisibilites to be away from the dangerous situations. “While it is the choice and responsability of the girl to keep herself out of dangerous situations, only the RAPIST can in the end be called into blame” . “Rape is not an inevitability, is it not a punishment for bad behavior”.. Very well said Nisha.
  
  The ability and Desire and selfishness of a Rapist to commit a crime is ignored and it is the victim, who is held responsible some how, most of the time. Why otherwise such incidents are still swept under the rug un-reported?
  
  As a note: I do beleive that the family plays (upbringing)a major role, in how men treat women, or how women choose to empower themselves.
  Reply to this
• 6/6/2006 2:34 PM A fine young lady wrote:
  An Indian Male...
  Meinu lagda hai yeh saare log ek dusre nu jande hai aur apne dost nu bachane ko saare ithe aa pade hain. Yahan aake bade shaane bante hain aur real life mein kuch ni karte hain.
  You stated you are a Sikh; in Sikhism, men and women are considered EQUAL. I doubt that you can see either your son or daughter as a second-class citizen. You consider women physically weaker than men but why should that stop women from trying different things?
  
  Arun, all you understood was that “ I stopped drinking because I wanted Indian guys to respect me” from my article? I think sir! you are the pathetic one. I stopped drinking because I did not want to be that girl who wakes up on a stranger's bed the next morning. My main point was that if a girl is intoxicated, she's not aware of things and she has to be careful. Obviously, it is easier to take advantage of someone when they are drunk. All I did was elaborate on that. Anyways, you are welcome to take it however you want. You were quick to label Indian male and me as He/She/It even though we both specified our gender in our name. Although, you automatically assumed that everyone here who did put their name are using their real name. They might be using a fake name because no one would know now, would they? Do you know them? Are you just trying to defend them because you all are good buddies? Do you feel like sticking up to you female (if they are using their real names) buddies? These women who talk about being independent want a male to help them? They can’t stick up for themselves? All these questions rise in my head. Care to explain!!!
  
  Have a good one.
  Reply to this
• 6/7/2006 10:56 PM Shreelata wrote:
  Very well said , Reena! I sincerely hope that people try to appreciate the points you have raised instead of rambling in Punjabi!...
  Reply to this
• 6/9/2006 2:09 PM An Indian Male wrote:
  A fine young lady:
  
  Yes it is true that in Sikhism we look at women as spiritual equals and a woman's worth is that of a man. However, this shouldn't be misinterpreted. A woman's physical abilities are usually lesser than a man's and to expect that she is a physical equal is obviously not realistic.
  
  A 5 year-old child is not physically or mentally equal to a man or a woman, yet when a building is on fire all bystanders will rush to help the children escape first.
  
  I think there's a confusion of issues. Some people have equated the value of a person's life based on what that person's abilities are. All human beings have the same value, while men, women, and children have different abilities. Man is usually recognized as the dominant species on earth. He has no physical equal. His mental prowess is equally impressive. His imagination and intelligence have let buildings touch the clouds, computers that let us pinpoint the location of an insect in the entire amazon rainforst, and technological advances that rival the best of science fiction novels.
  
  None of these would be possible without women. Man comes from women. She is also "the fairer sex" because she has intelligence and logic but it is complemented with balance because of her maternal instincts. She is man's partner to support him. He is her partner to support her. A marriage is a union of two different types of individuals, each of whom possesses something the other does not. A man possesses physical strength, bravery, discipline, and logic. A woman possesses clairvoyance, logic, kindness, nurturing, and an automatic instinct to protect her children from any harm.
  
  There is no one closer to a child than its mother, and no one better able to understand a child's pain than her. If we change this relationship to where women try to start acting like men in every way, I can only imagine it would lead to disfunctional families. I see thes problems in America all the time - rude children, stressed out parents, unhappy marriages.
  
  The pendulum has swung too far in the United States and I am certainly happy to have been born in India a quarter of a century ago.
  
  Good discussion everyone, let's keep it up!
  Reply to this
  1. 6/12/2006 9:20 AM Observer wrote:
     Replying to the "superior" one..
     
     If physical strength is your benchmark for superiority, then a GORILLA would be superiour to you!!!
     
     Your lack of intelligence shows!
     Reply to this
• 6/12/2006 5:53 PM An Indian Male wrote:
  Dear Observer:
  
  I didn't mean to give the impression I think men are superior. They are superior in certain aspects and women are superior in certain aspects, but who cares? The only reason I brought up physical strength is to highlight the differences between sexes, which is thoroughly denied by "radical feminists" these days. I DO think denying the obvious is unwise.
  
  I'm more concerned with how our culture is doing and how to make certain its core values will survive.
  Reply to this
• 6/13/2006 11:41 PM An Indian Male wrote:
  To all: Just wanted to clarify something. This is definitely not a "supeiority" competition. I'm simply trying to tell people of dangers which they are perhaps unaware of.
  
  I realise that Indian culture has some shortcomings but one of its greatest strengths it that it does not try to impose itself on others. British and American and a few Middle-Eastern cultures try to impose their belief systems onto those who think differently. The con of this is that a culture has to be somewhat barbaric to have this propensity. The appeal of that culture may be tantalising to our carnal senses because its problems are hidden from our view but at the core, it is a deeply troubled ideology. The pro of course, is that that culture will gain mass numbers.
  
  The Indian culture has never been entirely fair to women. I don't think any culture ever has. But I think motherhood and family are even more important to a woman than to a man, or at least she appreciates them in a different way. Indian culture will not do so well in a world stage where cultures compete. Our belief system seems dull. Imagination and revelry seem not to exist in it. Life seems monotonous. "Let's party!" is the way it should be right?
  
  As I grew up, I realised that the true test of a human being is not how often he or she needs change. Rather, it is how often one can keep steadfast. When we do the same routine daily, we are tested. When we must put in four hours studying day after day, we are tested. When we must come home to the same husband or wife every evening, we are tested. When we must stay at a job for 30 years instead of changing our major six times in college, we are tested.
  
  The true test of an individual is not how many times he or she can do different things, rather it is how disciplined and steady a person can keep his or her life.
  Reply to this
• 6/14/2006 2:59 PM A fine young lady wrote:
  An indian male...
  
  I don't know why these people think u lack intelligence
  
  cuz u make sense to me
  
  I don't understand why you women sit here and complain; no one is stopping any of you from doing anything. Just go out there and do what you have to do. Whatever makes you women happy. And if it is going to a club in a bikini, might as well do it and attain as much satisfaction as you can.
  
  Take care
  Reply to this
• 3/10/2007 2:59 AM B.B.Goyal wrote:
  you are putting good efforts.
  Reply to this
• 11/23/2007 1:58 AM jamwant tihal wrote:
  i am not surprised to read your story, becoz it is also happening in india too.
  but i appreciate your courage to tell it to all and discuss it with your parents.
  Reply to this

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